「Gゼロ」提唱者イアン・ブレマーと読み解く、グローバルサウスの正体

Their ambitions, though, and their language: very modest, like what you'd see from China, 10-20 years ago. Indian diplomats, for example, they're banned from actually using the phrase "great power" or "superpower" to describe India or its ambitions. Modi likes to use this Sanskrit phrase "Vishwaguru", which means "universal teacher". It's all about leading by example. A lot of India's Global South policy, which is not what they say when they talk to the Americans, is about leading by example.

Potolicchio: Here's my most nostalgic question of the day, because the first time I ever asked you a question was "what leaders should I pay attention to that we're not paying attention to?" and you mentioned Indonesia. This was like eight-nine years ago. Indonesia, what's your analysis there?

Bremmer: First of all, Indonesia gets nowhere near the attention that India does. It's smaller, it doesn't yet have the Western investment that makes the headlines, but it's quite stable politically. It's quite proud of its role in founding, alongside India and others The Non-Aligned Movement. It also prioritizes solidarity with other Muslim countries and opposition to Israel, which comes up in its foreign policy, which has sometimes created suspicion and sensitivities around the West, in a post-colonial society. Having said all of that, Indonesia is generally less eager than a lot of Global South countries to antagonize The West. They see economic and, more recently, security ties with The United States, with Japan, as a very important counterbalance to the growing influence and the growing assertiveness of China. I would say Indonesia doesn't yet see India as so important in that regard, though over time, I expect, they will.